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Poster: shiphappens Date: May 16, 2007 5:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

Funny, I don't have any problem with this one at all. I am not an attorney and quite frankly I have nothing but disdain for most attorneys. YouTube is a large corporate entity. They are a for profit organization and the bottom line is to make money and keep the advertising revenue flowing in. They have to be held accountable to a higher standard than say Archive. When you are making money off someone else's efforts than new rules come into play, specifically making sure the streaming vids you are playing to make your money are public domain or you should have to pay for them. If it takes a law suit to siphon off money from a huge profit making machine and putting it back into the pockets of people that put thier blood, sweat and tears into thier music, art, whatever then I am all for it.
And thats all I have to say about that then. (forest gump)

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Poster: patkelley Date: May 16, 2007 8:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

I'm with you totally except I can never understand why people say they dont like lawyers. Seems kind of cliche and stupid.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 16, 2007 8:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

I hear you, Pat. Some of my best friends are...hmmm, sorry, no best friends.

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Poster: shiphappens Date: May 16, 2007 8:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

As a business owner for over 20 years I can tell you this much. Lawyers are in it for the money. They are bottom dwellers and make there money from dredging the worst from the human spirit. Grow up.
JR

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Poster: patkelley Date: May 16, 2007 8:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

I have grown up, and gone to law school. Dont you think it would be ridiculous if I said something like "I hate business owners, they're in it for the money?" When they start giving out gasoline and groceries, maybe more attorneys can practice law for some reason other than making money. Until then, we just do the best we can to advocate for other people (who call us or come to our offices first). Maybe your criticism is really of society in general and they way we interact with each other, because lawyers just do what the client wants and needs them to do. Or maybe you're just broke and bitter after some lawsuit. Maybe you should try representing yourself the next time you get sued or arrested. I hear "business owners" are really good at amateur law practice.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 16, 2007 9:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

Pat - what I don't like is the way most things that matter are made so convoluted that you either have to be a lawyer or are forced to hire a lawyer or you else you get screwed. It's bullshit.

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Poster: patkelley Date: May 16, 2007 9:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

dude, there are a lot of laws out there. how can it be any simpler or less convoluted? if you get arrested, the state in which you live is going to try as hard as it can to deprive you of liberty, and it's going to use a trained prosecutor to do it. when you get sued by someone, they're trying to take as much money from you as they can, without any regard to how complicated they're making it for you. all parties involved should be grateful for the professional buffer zone between them that lawyers represent. you may not realize it, but you want it to be complicated.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 16, 2007 9:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

Spoken like a lawyer.

I wasn't talking about criminal law. And I wouldn't expect you to understand being a person who makes their living from things being the way they are.

Here's an example - any reason why tax laws have to be as complicated as they are? Why yes there is - so rich pricks and their lawyers can fuck over the people that don't have the same means.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 17, 2007 2:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

As a lawyer, and as a well known asshole on this forum, I can say that a LARGE % of the practicing attorneys I know, not all mind you, are, as Frank said, ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY and would just as soon keep billing a client and matter well past the time for an easier, more cost effective resolution. Like any profession (used car salesmen, insurance, televangelists,etc) there are good ones and bad ones, but the bad ones in this profession are here in droves. It's pretty damn easy for me to understand why most people have a visceral dislike and distrust of attorneys (of course, until they need one). Try being on the receiving end of that bill and wanting to know why you got billed a half hour for that call when it was only 20 minutes and 5 were devoted to asking about last night's game.

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Poster: nagdot Date: May 17, 2007 10:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

isnt you tube like the archive, where an individual uploads from their personal archive.is mr grisman allowing his shows here .maybe times are tough for mr grisman, after all its not like he gets much in royalties from grateful dead record sales. he has to do wat bobby and phil and them have been doing since jerry died and living off jerrys legacy.you dont see bobs or phils equipment catchin a million dollars even if they were gone it still wouldnt hit wat jerry was worth to the ppl. its easier to sue the corporation than to hunt down each individual who has these shows on video. the world is turnin to a bunch of money grubbing hounds.sorry if anyone is offended. peace

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 16, 2007 5:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

not sure you are right there - but i'm not sure you are wrong either - nicely put man

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 16, 2007 5:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

I agree with your uncertainty, Dire. It is what it is. When they did it years ago, Dawg included, Jerry and Bob encouraging, it was viewed as acceptable. But what if the taper had charged admission, thousands attended, and he benefited from the playing of his tapes? Just because the times have changed, and technology allows for rapid and expansive release, if it wasn't 'wrong' then, it ain't wrong now...

They were the biggest anti establishment sorts at the time; no matter how you cut it, this is a classic (we've all done it) reversal...At the time, 1968, do you think they would have taken the side of "little guy" that had a business manager and a lawyer?

My reason for struggling with it to, man.

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Poster: bigbossdan Date: May 16, 2007 7:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Know anything about Gratefully Deadicated Sound Sytsem?

To followup on your point, I've heard of this cat who sets up a big PA at bars and festival gigs and does nothing but play crisp, clean copies of shows. I suspect this is not done for free. Is this in the spirit of the "tacit encouragement" of taping? Or is it justified because there is a cost to have the amps, speakers, time to set up? I'm not sure how I feel about all that.

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Poster: rastamon Date: May 17, 2007 6:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Know anything about Gratefully Deadicated Sound Sytsem?

In Berkeley, that dude is Digital Dave, see calander for 5/10 & 5/24 >>
http://www.ashkenaz.com/html/calendar.php

He has an outstanding sound system for full concert sound.
I heard his setup at the Fillmore in SF at a Dicks Picks 13
Party. Even met Dick there (somehow, that doesn't sound right...)

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 16, 2007 7:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Know anything about Gratefully Deadicated Sound Sytsem?

Hey--thanks for posting! Of course, I was just positing a hypothetical, but the point remains...if in the old days someone could make a few bucks, no one cared, but now that they can make a few more, they do?

I just don't think Jerry would have flipped like that. In the entertainment business, I just do not buy (at face value) the argument that 'everyone has to make a living' (sorry Mc, and all the other hard working musicians!) as free press is free PR...it just isn't so simple as it is sometimes presented.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 16, 2007 5:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

agreed WT - totally agreed - i am as confused as you with this new development - i don't agree with it, and i don't agree with it, but i don't understand it either so i with withhold judgment

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: May 16, 2007 6:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

What strikes me as pointless and naive about Grisman's suit is that YouTube supposedly removes copyright infringing material when alerted to it, and are defending themselves against the Viacom suit with the argument that, like ISPs, they are not responsible for copyright infringement by people who use their service. That argument may or may not hold water in the Viacom suit, but it's hard to imagine Grisman's got the legal clout to follow through against Google and co.

Outfits like Viacom argue that it's unreasonably time-consuming for them to root out and petition for the removal of all materials infringing their copyrights, but how much time could it take Grisman to do that with his videos, for heaven's sake?

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Poster: shiphappens Date: May 16, 2007 5:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: David Grisman Sues YouTube

You would make good politician. Just an interesting segway,
A couple of years back David came out and opened The Dead show at Red Rocks. It was the 4 or 5 night run with Joan Osborne. It was sad. The sun was still up and there where still people filtering into the venue. I would say less than half the people where paying attention. I think he deserved more respect and attention then what he recieved. What is up with that? Anyone else there that felt the same way? I am out.
JR